der发现时代设计师 成立于2018年  

对话HZS汇张思张润舟×思图德:做有温度的设计

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对话张润舟×思图德:

做有温度的设计


01

时机时机:您能简单介绍一下汇张思与您自己吗?HZS 坚持怎样的设计理念?

Could you please give us a short introduction of yourself and the HZS brand? What would you say is a key design philosophy in your practice?

张润舟:HZS从字面来讲,当然Z是我,S就是我的合伙人 Craig Studer(思图德)先生。但是H非常有意思,H代表了汇聚、汇集,也就是说对于设计公司,汇聚设计师的思想、思路和创意是极为重要的。汇张思虽然是我和思图德先生创立的,但是它的成长、发展是离不开所有的汇张思人的努力,所以我们特别强调汇聚、汇集这个含义。

图片图片▲ 上海办公室 © HZS

Craig Studer(思图德):我从事规划设计已经超过35年,有幸在五个不同的大洲工作过。在过去的15年里,我和润舟大部分工作都集中在汇张思业务和团队的成长发展上,我认为我们在这段时间里取得的最重要的成就之一就是成为中国真正的跨学科协作的设计公司之一。

I've been involved in planning design for over thirty five years, and I've had the pleasure of working on five different continents. Over the last fifteen years, much of that work has been focused on, with Renzo, developing and growing HZS. I think one of the most significant accomplishments we've made in that time is to become one of the truly interdisciplinary collaborative firms in China.图片▲ 上海办公室 © HZS

我和润舟认识有20年了,那时我们在美国同一家公司但不同城市共同参与中国的项目。在那段时间里,我们培养了工作的默契。在职业道德和对工作的热情方面我们有一些相似之处,解决问题的风格和工作方法却是非常非常不同的,但实际上这是一件好事,因为这样我们可以互补。

Renzo and I go back for more than twenty years, we started working in the US and actually in different cities on projects in China. We were in the same firm right on projects in China. I think during that times, our working relationship developed. We realized we had some similarities in terms of work ethic and our passion for doing the kind of work we were doing.  I think our styles of solving problems and our work methods may be very different, but in fact that's a good thing, because they're very complimentary to each other.


02

时机时机:HZS在中国最关注的领域是什么?你们认为有哪几个目前重要的研究点/领域必须要深入?又有什么独特的思考理念可以分享一下?

What are some of the areas HZS is most focused on in China? What are some of the topics or key areas of research you think need to be explored? Do you have any particular ideas/approaches to share?

Craig Studer(思图德):汇张思在社区规划和住宅设计方面已经获得了很多认可,也大力参与了旅游以及城乡复兴相关项目。

I think HZS has gained quite a lot of recognition in terms of community planning and residential design. However, we've also been heavily involved in tourism related projects, urban and rural revitalization.

建筑设计可能是人类历史上最古老的职业之一,有些人可能会认为行业正在发生巨变。变化总是存在的,但我和润舟都是乐观主义者,我们认为杯子是半满的。随着世界的变化,未来依旧会有很多新的机会,而建筑和设计专业仍将是其中非常重要的一部分。

I think that architecture and design is probably one of the oldest professions in human history. I think that some people may look at as, there are changes happening in our industry. Of course, there are always changes. But I think the future, Renzo and I are both optimists, so we always look at the glasses being half full. So I think there are plenty of new opportunities, as our world changes, the profession of architecture and design will still be very much part of that.

图片▲ 阿那亚滦平小古道金山岭 © HZS

张润舟:其实我们最想做也希望做的比较好的是能够影响中国未来的民计民生的重要方面。第一是提供高品质、高质量的住宅,这方面我们做的不错,但是还可以做得更好。高品质高质量并不是多么奢华、昂贵,而是如何为使用者提供他们理想中的、性价比高的居住环境。另一方面,我们认为做的还不错是旅游、文旅和度假酒店,这在未来也越来越重要。疫情的影响,大家都选择在国内游玩。随着生活水平的提高,GDP现在已经超过了人均1万美元,国人需要品质好的、物有所值的、值得去的休闲度假场所,在这方面我们认为做的也不错。

03

时机时机:在你们看来,文旅、景观设计师和建筑师之间的关系是怎样的,以及合作模式,有哪些体会或者建议?

In your opinion, what are (or should be) the relationships between the various design disciplines in your industry? Planners, Architects, Landscape and Interior Architects, etc…  What in your opinion are the best ways to enhance collaboration among these disciplines?

Craig Studer(思图德):我认为汇张思在这方面是独一无二的,和其他公司非常不同。正如我之前提到的,我们是在中国运营的真正跨学科协作的设计公司之一。这之所以成为可能,是因为润舟和我,以及我们的许多设计总监都有协作的经验。在美国和世界其他地方工作的时候,合作只是不同学科之间工作的一部分。因此,我们非常努力地在HZS创造一个令人兴奋的跨学科环境,这也体现在我们给客户带来的设计价值上。

I think HZS is unique in that way, very different than many other firms. As I mentioned earlier, we’re one of the truly interdisciplinary design firms operating in China. That's made possible because Renzo and myself, as well as many of our senior managers, have had collaborative experience, as working in the US and in other parts of the world where the collaboration is just part of the process between different disciplines. So we worked very hard to create an exciting, interdisciplinary environment at HZS. I think it     also shows the value of the products that we provide to our clients. 

张润舟:汇张思现在发力在做的和我们希望做的比较好几个方面,都需要不同专业之间的密切配合和一体化设计。比如设计文旅小镇,文旅小镇是现在大多数国人旅游度假目的地,它的设计绝对不是规划师、建筑师或者景观建筑师等各自为战。这样一个小镇需要很多吸引人的、有温度的场景和体验,从大的规划到小的组团,到节点,从室外到室内,从景观到建筑,都需要整体考虑来打造。所以汇张思的汇,除了代表汇聚大家的智慧、思路和想法以外,还有非常重要的一点是,所有专业能够一体化汇聚到一起,来共同解决问题,给出更好的答案。

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▲ 龙湖 北京长城源著 © HZS
每一个项目都对我们提出了更大的挑战和更高的要求,同时也促使我们用全新的思维给出更好的解决方案。比如北京远郊有个山地项目,打造一个能够吸引北京人的1.5居所和第二居。在充分利用地形、考虑未来使用者的生活习惯的同时,如何再造熟悉的生活场景,让他们有归家的感觉?我们做了很好的探索和尝试,首先利用地形做出半室外的公共空间,第二利用北京人圈子文化的社交方式和生活习惯,打造一个沟通交流的度假场所。同时结合北京人喜欢串门,喜欢跟邻里交往的习惯,打造了一个类似于胡同的交往空间。既满足了交往需求又满足了交通和竖向联系的需求,这应该算一个解决的比较好的案例。


04

时机时机:HZS在智能领域的探索可以分享下吗?如何应用AI或者新技术的尝试?智能领域对建筑的冲击是如何的?

Is HZS involved in the exploration of smart architecture or smart cities? What are your thoughts on the implementation of Artificial Intelligence and new technology in architecture?  What impacts do you think there will be with this trend?  

张润舟:Smart City(智慧城市)作为一个热点问题有很多人关注的,我想把它描述成是有刻度的东西。但我更关注的是温度方面,什么是温度方面呢?简单说来就是更关注人与人在你设计的空间场所里面会发生什么事情。人与自然之间,人与在地文化和历史之间,在你设计的空间里面会产生什么样的化学反应。就是说如何让我们设计的东西不仅在刻度方面做得非常好,在温度方面做得更好,更有人情味。这个地方是你喜欢呆的地方,在这个地方你能找到志趣相投的另一半。总而言之,你会感到非常舒适,所以我更关注的是温度方面,我们不能过分的强调 Smart City,AI等,还要强调人性方面的需求。
图片▲ 深圳龙华金茂府 © HZS


05

时机时机:你们觉得,HZS在建筑行业最大的与众不同是什么?为什么那么多客户都愿意选择HZS?

What are the most outstanding strengths of HZS in the architectural design industry?  Why do so many clients choose to work with HZS?

张润舟:我觉得我们的长处和优点,来自于汇聚和汇集。三个臭皮匠顶个诸葛亮,正是因为我们能够把我们团队的智慧,思想,想法汇聚到一起,所以我们才能够给甲方提供他们想要的解决方法。同时因为我们是一个从策划到规划、建筑、景观都有的设计公司,每一个方面做的都非常不错,我们可以把所有的方面整合到一起,为业主甲方提供一体化的解决方案。这样的解决方案在多数的情况下会更加有创意,更加的击中要害,更加的符合甲方需求,这就是我们最大的优点和长处。
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我们公司是在中国比较大型的公司里面少有的设计公司。虽然我们有1200位设计师,但是我们的设计师都不是各自独立工作,团队也不是独立运作和管理,而是一个完全一体化的设计公司。所以我们的事业部之间在沟通交流,资源与信息共享方面没有任何障碍和阻隔。汇张思是一个共享小社会,我们提倡在设计面前人人平等,只讲能力,不讲学历,最主要的体现就是设计不论出自于是谁手,只要好,我们就会采用。不会因为年龄、资历或者学历来决定用谁的方案。


06

时机时机:06年至今的设计旅程中,HZS对于时代有着怎样的理解?设计经过了怎样的周期?

In the design journey since 2006, what is HZS’s understanding of the times?  What cycles has the design industry gone through?

Craig Studer(思图德):自成立以来的15年里,我们经历了很多。尤其最近几年,人们的生活方式、投资时间和消费方式发生了很大变化。曾经人们很关注住宅开发,所以住宅也是我们产业的重要组成部分,而现在我们可以看到的更多样化的项目,包括商业、休闲、文旅等。人们可支配的时间和收入也导致了从城市到对农村和农村地区的扩张,特别是我们正在参与开发的一些旅游景区。

Fifteen years since our beginning, obviously it's gone through quite a lot. I think, probably the biggest change, especially over more recent years, is the way people are living today, the way they're investing their time and their money. It used to be residential development, was such a big part of our industry, and I think what we're starting to see now is much greater diversity of work in terms of commercial, leisure type of projects. Tourism obviously has had a huge impact on that, and people's disposable time and incomes are also leading to sort of an expansion beyond just the urban development into countryside development and rural locations, especially with regards to some tourism destinations that we have been working on.

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张润舟:15年的发展,汇张思发展到今天不容易,有成功,有喜悦,也有失败。但是我想最重要的一点就是一定要回归设计本源,做好设计,做好产品力,让好的设计能够真正落地,而不是追求规模和速度。因为我们设计行业设计是根,服务是本,所以一定不要忘了我们的根本和初心就是要做好设计。


07

时机时机:今年的疫情给各个方面带来影响,景观规划方面也不例外,您认为“后疫情时代”的城市规划和景观设计会因此而有什么变化吗?中国未来的城市发展会出现哪些不同的变化?

Covid-19 has had a big impact on many aspects of our lives.  How do you think urban planning and landscape design will change in the post-epidemic period? What will be some of the changes in urban development into the future, particularly in China?

Craig Studer(思图德): 我不认为疫情对我们的专业或实践方式,或者城市发展的理念会有很大的影响。与世界上许许多多的其他国家相比,我这说很大程度上与中国应对疫情的方式有关。我认为疫情真正改变的是我们看待工作和工作与生活平衡的态度。疫情让我们每个人都有机会看到和过去不同的生产方式和工作方式。

I don't think that there is going to be much impact on our profession or the way to practice or even the idea of urban development being affected by the pandemic. I think a lot of that has to do with China's response to the pandemic, compared to many other countries across the world. I think what will change is the way we look at work and the work life balance. I think what this has done is, it's really opened to everyone's eyes to opportunities to look at the way we produce and the way we work differently than in the past. 

Renzo和我在HZS的发展过程中总是通过线上的方式保持联系和合作。我在北美、欧洲和亚洲都有工作过,所以我们习惯了这种工作方式,在疫情期间我们也能够保持相当高的工作效率。所以疫情让我们减少花在旅行上的时间,花在面对面开会的时间,因为它让每个人都意识到,因为我们现在可以通过线上的方式做很多事情,所以我们更有效率,也就有更多的时间给到自己和家庭,可以由实践找到兴趣爱好,体验除了工作环境之外的事情。所以我认为这可能是疫情对城市规划的最大影响,没有交通堵塞,也许也不需要太多的办公空间。所以我们的建筑实践,或者我们回应问题和项目的方式将会因为疫情而改变很多,尤其是在中国。

Well, Renzo and I've been sort of working virtually off and on at different times over the development of HZS. I've been working in North America and Europe and Asia, so we're used to this kind of way of working, and we're able to maintain fairly strong rate of productivity during the time. So I think what will do is it will reduce the amount of time spent traveling, time spent going to face to face meetings. Because everybody's realizing that, because we're doing things more virtually now, we're more productive and we have more time for ourselves, families and to develop leisure interests and have different experiences outside of the workplace. So I think that's probably going to be the biggest impact that pandemic it will have on urban planning. No more Traffic, maybe not as much office space required. So the practice, or our response to problems and projects are really going to change that much as a result of the pandemic, especially here in China because of the response to pandemic. 


08

时机时机:作为重要品牌引领者,你们希望给予年轻建筑师在HZS怎样的一个未来?

As a leading brand, what kind of future do you want to provide for young architects in HZS?

Craig Studer(思图德):我们在HZS最大的抱负也许就是为那些刚进入行业的年轻人提供同样的潜在机会,成长和鼓励,这也是我们两人刚工作时感受到的。我们提供给他们一个机会去尝试做一些与众不同的事情,也许是他们在学习期间没有经历过的,在一个有多个学科协同的环境中,谈论彼此的想法,使他们真正将专业领域的想法思考和实践方法进行整合。我们真心希望在给人们提供鼓舞人心的环境的同时给予奖励,奖励那些有雄心壮志,创造力,好奇心和责任感的年轻设计师。

 Probably our biggest ambition for people just starting off in the profession within HZS is to offer them the same sort of potential opportunities and growth, and inspiration that I think both of us had when we were young people starting out in our careers. I think one of the things that we offer them as an opportunity to do something very different that perhaps they didn't have during their academic years, of working in an environment where have multiple disciplines working together, talking about each other's work, and really integrating their ideas on the profession and the way to practice this profession. I think one of the things that we really want to do is rewarding while providing people with an inspiring environment, and reward ambition, creativity, curiosity and also responsibility.

张润舟:首先,我认为作为建筑师、规划师、城市设计师,除了关注自己的专业,更应该关注和重视我们的社会责任。我们设计的每一个东西,我们做的每一件事情,实际上是会对社会产生非常大的影响的,所以我们应该为社会带来利益。
对于青年建筑师培养方面,我们一直做的不错。我们认为青年建筑师加入汇张思不是仅仅来这工作、奉献的,他们来这儿更多的是学习成长。所以我们有汇张思大学,几乎每天、每个月、每个季度都会有讲座分享,让青年建筑师有学习成长的机会,这是一个大学,而不是一个工厂。我们还有一些很好的事情,比如师徒制,每一个新的同事来了以后,都会有有经验的设计师带着他们,就像师傅带徒弟一样带他们成长。

对于年轻设计师,我想对他们说,这个世界发展非常快,机会也非常多。但是我希望他们能够专注于做一件事情,把这件事情做好

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主编:田宁
采访人:Alex,der媒体部,朱莹莹
统筹:田宁,Alex拍摄:der媒体部
视频:田宁,苍
实录校对:Kelly,Alex宣传:der媒体部





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