OPPORTUNITY 时机 合资 | 0-20人 | 成立于2018年  

以创意为驱动,创造有意义的城市体验(上)——来自der视频专访 | 斯蒂文霍尔建筑师事务所合伙人Roberto Bannura


Roberto Bannura

Roberto Bannura

Our firm is a tight group of individuals, devoted to architecture. We pour our hearts in the projects we do, because we have the firm belief, they can be of positive impact to the urban environment.

对话Roberto Bannura:
Please give an introduction of SHA and yourself Please
罗勃特: 首先,谢谢你的邀请。也很开心能在当代MOMA-联接复合体这里进行采访,这是我们在2009年完成的一个很有意思的项目。我们很高兴能参与d.e.r栏目,一起来讨论一些关于建筑的话题。斯蒂文霍尔建筑师事务所致力于创作有趣的,鼓舞人心的建筑作品,以一些独特的方式回应建筑命题。

First of all, thank you for the invitation. I’m glad to be here at the Linked Hybrid, a project that we finished in 2009. We’re happy to be part of d.e.r’s effort to expand the discussion on architecture. The aim of our firm is to work on interesting works of architecture that are inspiring, that are a unique result of a few criteria.


The first one is to be specific to the site, connect to the site, respond to the site in a physical way, obviously as it is the physical environment, but also in what we call the metaphysical aspects of it: its history and culture, what people associate the site with. That's the point of departure of the design, first and foremost. Second, I think, people know about our firm because of our idea-driven approach to design, every project has a very strong conceptual footing, which drives the design from the early stages of concept design all the way through materiality selection, furniture design and detailing. We’re very loyal to that idea from the beginning of a project. 

Steven Holl Architects 


You can explore this project (‘Linked Hybrid’) in particular, and you can see, for example, the footprint of the project repeated in the door handles of all public doors, and many other applications of the concept echoing through the design process. The third aspect, I think is that we love to explore materiality and light. Those are the elements under which you experience space. We believe that to be a primary concern of ours, strong materiality and the use of natural light as an actual building material. We are a collaborative group of architects and planners and with that intimate collaboration we create unique projects that are specific to those principles. That's why every project of ours is very different. Our projects are never the same in any way.


We're not a large company. With our studios in New York and in Beijing we continue to take on very complex projects, in size and typology. We don't really need to be in the same room with everybody. We have what Steven mentions and continues to say ‘One office in two places’. This twenty four / seven collaboration of architecture, that happens between the two offices is very lively and is very efficient, but also spontaneous and prolific in our discussion of architecture, at a very high level. 

Your journey with architecture and SHA 
罗勃特: 自从我上大学以来,斯蒂文和他的事务所就一直是我心目中的偶像。我是在九十年代初开始了解他的一些项目,那时日本“福冈”(Fukuoka)住宅项目刚刚推出,我已经被这个项目的独特之处震撼了,它融入了社会功能,并提出每个公寓都是不同的,它包容了每户住客家庭和个人的特质和喜好。我也喜欢那个项目中那些很美的细节处理。从那时起,我就一直在关注Steven Holl建筑事务所的项目。
Steven and the office had been my heroes since I was in university. I became aware of his work in the early nineties, when ‘Fukuoka’, the housing project in Japan, was coming up. I was already stricken by how unique that project was, the insertion of social functions, the idea that every apartment was different, which included the idiosyncrasies of the families and the people living in them. I loved the aesthetic of that project as well. I started following Steven Holl Architects’ projects ever since.

在纽约生活了10年,我开始想要探索并深耕某种类型的建筑。我很幸运,我们的来福士项目有一个职位空缺,“切开的通透体块-成都来福士”项目即将开始, 斯蒂文需要一个领队的人,所以2007年我面试的非常顺利,我对这份工作和工作室里贯彻的设计方法感到十分兴奋,于是我2007年来到这里,现在我已经在中国生活和工作了13年。

Living in New York for ten years, it got to the point that I wanted to explore and hopefully contribute to that type of architecture. I was lucky enough that there was an opening for our Raffles City project, the ‘Sliced Porosity Block’ in Chengdu, and Steven was looking for someone to be the chief architect for that project. We had a really good interview in 2007, I was thrilled with his work and the work of the office, and I ended up coming here in late 2007. Now I am going on 13 years, living and working in China. 

▲ 日本“福冈”住宅 ©MoMA官网

▲ 日本“福冈”住宅 ©SHA官网

It's a humbling experience, to be honest, to be able to contribute to the firm’s journey. If you know where I come from, it’s not easy to get to that environment in which we can be part of the discussion of architecture at that level. So I would say: more of a humbling experience for me and my formation as an architect than anything else.

我有建筑学和城市规划的学位,还有城市经济的学位,这对我在中国工作12年的经验很有帮助。由于我们所做的项目的规模和复杂性,我们确实可以有很大的城市影响-,影响着城市里面的人如何使用周边的城市环境并与其产生关联。了解项目是如何产生的?它们是否可以对城市产生影响?项目中是扩大了或缩紧了城市的公共空间,产生社会互动,以及项目的经济指标?项目是如何融资的? 项目是如何开发的?如果要完成我们所经历的的项目复杂度和尺度,我认为这些问题对于建筑师来说都是必须清晰了解的。这些项目让我知道,可以理解城市环境项目的复杂性是多么的有用且这些理解是可以帮助我真正地进行设计。

I have a degree on architecture and urban planning, in addition to that degree of urban economy. It really supports me in my experience of working in China for over 12 years, because of the size and complexity of the work that we do here, which has very strong urban repercussions, in the way that people use them and relate to the urban environment. Understanding how projects are generated, how they contribute or not to urbanism, how they expand or the opposite, tighten up public environments and create social exchange... The economics of a project too, how projects are funded, how projects are developed. Knowing all of that, I think, is mandatory for an architect,if you are ever going to work under these circumstances and at this scale. Understanding a project like that informs me, it’s very useful for me to understand the complexities of a project of urban insertion in order to be able to take them on.


We live in a society, we are all members of a society. We don’t do anything alone... and I was telling my son over the weekend that to do one of these buildings there are thousands of people involved. There are several stakeholders involved. The architect is not THE architect, he’s one of the many collaborators. That is counter to the notion of architecture or THE architect that people may have, or that I think is wrongfully being portrayed in universities, THE architect as the sole creator... it’s never been the case. We are one, I like to think, important piece of a long list of collaborators and individuals and in that sense yes, understanding a project of architecture in its urban dimension is critical. 

SHA Design intention in public space SHA
罗勃特: 我们做过很多城市更新的项目,你现在正站在其中一个项目上(当代MOMA-联接复合体)。在奥运会之前,这里曾是一个轻工业工厂,更新后成为中国可持续发展高水准项目之一。这个项目的供暖和冷却系统主要都是靠地热井来完成的 ,地热井提供了其中供暖和冷却系统所需要的80%以上的能源。这就是城市再生的可持续性。

We have worked in urban regeneration projects and you are standing on one of them actually (‘Linked Hybrid’). This site itself used to be a light industrial site before the Olympics, which became one of the high standards of sustainability in China. This project is heated and cooled with geothermal wells that are taking care of over eighty percent of the energy required, so this is urban regeneration in its sustainability dimension.

▲ 当代MOMA-连接复合体中地热能源系统  ©SHA

▲ 当代MOMA-连接复合体 ©Shu He

▲ 当代MOMA-连接复合体中心水景广场 ©Iwan Baan

 ▲ 当代MOMA-连接复合体中心水景广场 ©Iwan Baan


Our Chengdu project (‘Sliced Porosity Block’) that you were mentioning before, is very similar on this regard. We formed a large urban platform that is connected with Renmin Nanlu, the main artery of the city, and therefore connected with the vernacular network or public spaces in the city. This large plaza hosts all sorts of public activities, and is an environment that looks like this (the Linked Hybrid central courtyard) but even greener, creating an oasis in the center of a very paved urban setting that is downtown Chengdu. 

▲ 成都来福士-切开的通透体块 © Shu He
▲ 成都来福士-切开的通透体块中的城市公共广场 ©Shu He

▲ 成都来福士-切开的通透体块 城市公共广场和建筑艺术‘光之阁’ ©SHA

▲ 成都来福士-切开的通透体块 城市公共广场 ©SHA
我们认为总的来说,我们在面对这个问题的最有力的方式是确保我们的项目,我们所有的项目都有一定程度的公共性的社会职能和一定程度的文化性的空间功能。这些元素的整合在我们的意识中是非常重要的,在我们看来,这不是一个零和博弈,不是因为你选择了一个就不能做另一个。我们总是持续思考(这个问题),例如,这里的电影院Cinematheque (当代MOMA-联接复合体),就在你身后,甚至不在原本的项目任务书中。这是我们建议的,我们认为它会产生巨大的文化吸引力,而且事实证明它确实有影响。在这里举办电影节和非政府组织,从而吸引了合作方到这里,也带来了一些其他的商业价值。
We believe that by and large, the strongest effort we have ever done when it comes to that issue is to make sure that each one of our projects has a level of public usage, and a level of cultural programs. The integration of those elements is very important in our minds, and it is not a zero sum game. Not because you are obtaining one you cannot obtain the other. We continue to think, for example, the Cinematheque (‘Linked Hybrid’) here, that’s standing right behind you, did not exist as part of the program for this building. We proposed that. We thought that it would be a great magnet for culture, and it has become exactly that. There are film festivals held here and organizations holding rallies to bring in collaborators. This has expanded the program options in an otherwise commercial project.

▲ 当代MOMA-连接复合体 电影院Cinematheque ©Shu He



Similarly in our Chengdu project (‘Slice Porosity Block’), we have art installations embedded into the shapes of the building, which are key elements in the generation of a 12,000 square meter plaza that functions as social platform for people’s interaction, in which culture is primordial. That is a response to our worries regarding art being available only to rich people.No, we don't work that way, and it doesn't need to be either / or. There's a lot of room to generate very productive collaborations with mindful clients who would value that idea. 

▲ 成都来福士-切开的通透体块中的建筑艺术‘光之阁’  ©Iwan Baan 

▲ 成都来福士-切开的通透体块中的建筑艺术‘历史之馆’  ©Iwan Baan 


When we have been able to propose element or projects that have become groundbreaking in some regards like the ‘Linked hybrid’, the ‘Sliced Porosity Block’ in Chengdu, like the ‘ICarbonX’ headquarter we are doing now, like our ‘CIFI International’ in Beijing (a porous mixed-use of very interesting language),  they are projects that require my involvement with stakeholders on the ground, and that's something that I love to do, because you don't only get the opportunity to explain the intentions behind these projects to Planning Department, to the client, to other stakeholders, but you get to understand their prerogatives.  You have to understand where they come from and what their concerns are, for you to work with them.

例如,我们再谈谈此刻这个项目,这个项目有电影院Cinematheque (当代MOMA-联接复合体),有连接所有的塔楼的廊桥,还有开放的广场。

For example, let's talk about the project we are in now (“Linked hybrid’), a project that has a Cinematheque, that has bridges connecting all the towers and has an open plaza.

▲ 北京旭辉七里庄商办大楼 效果图 ©SHA

We gave enough freedom for the operator, as it is their project to manage in the end. We don't necessarily expect users to behave in a certain way. We potentiate certain functions, so of course user-space relationships flourish organically in the way that people use the building. (‘Linked Hybrid’ ) The bridges were something very important for the project’s concept, to provide this semi-public functions in areas of the buildings that are usually very private. We didn't have specific expectations, or a recipe for how those spaces needed to be used. We gave some ideas: a yoga center, an auditorium, a swimming pool, and some of those functions stayed. That second bridge is a swimming pool, that first bridge is an auditorium. They remained the same as in our proposal. Some of them became museums, some of them became commercial enterprises. One of them remained a gym. All that as a mix of our planning and the natural changes given by the users and the operator over time. This was a very unique feature for a residential typology, which historically in Beijing at least, or in many places in China, is a very private typology. I'm challenged to think of another project that has done what this project did in China at large, a project that continues, twelve years after its completion, to be open to the public and be as vibrant as it was originally intended to be.


It’s done through the process of that collaboration with stakeholders. That is very important because, we know, we were pushing the boundaries when it comes to some of these ideas that we consider to be groundbreaking.

 ▲ 当代MOMA-连接复合体廊桥 ©Shu He

▲ 当代MOMA-连接复合体廊桥 ©Iwan Baan

How to deal with context and understand the context
China is a very diverse country. You know this, I've learned this. You know that every province is different, every city is different. It is a beautifully diverse environment, so a public space in Beijing won't behave or it won’t act in the same way as a public space in Chengdu. If you have been to Chengdu, and I've been, because of the project we had there, probably over a hundred times (never with enough time to enjoy it), the one thing you discover on the very first trip is that people utilize every open space that they have available to them. Spaces under highway overpasses, large street corners, a large sidewalk in front of Renmin Stadium or whatever. Because it is part of the local culture, people really, really enjoy the outdoors. People do business outdoor. It's the weather condition too. Weather in Chengdu is much better than the weather in Beijing. That fact defines the design we are doing.
▲ 成都来福士-切开的通透体块 建筑艺术‘光之馆’ ©Shu He

When it comes to Shenzhen, the project that we're doing in Shenzhen (‘ICarbonX’), we're very mindful that we are dealing with a tropical environment. There will be a large water feature in the center of the public space, which is one of the many items that would create a suitable environment for people to enjoy the outdoors, and in Shenzhen people enjoying the outdoors is a challenge due to its climate. But we have high hopes that it will happen with our design.

▲ iCarbon X碳云总部大厦中心水景 @SHA

In our Nanqiao project in Shanghai (‘Shanghai Cofco Cultural & Health Centre’), our landscape is part of the extent of the Punan River landscape. We intended for the user, who might not care or need to know about architecture, someone who is just experiencing that landscape, to see our plaza as an extension of the one thing that he or she already experienced (the river landscape), who will be very comfortable in that extension of the landscape, we hope. That’s how we have designed that space. Yes, we take that diversity into considerations. 

▲ 上海中粮南桥半岛文体中心与医疗服务站景观与运河的衔接 @SHA

We go to the site. I go to the site for all of our projects. I plan to spend as much time as possible. But as an architect, I have twenty five years of experience, you grow into the position that you can understand things through research as well. We do a lot of research, which is fun. For instance, the project that we are doing in Shenzhen  for ‘ICarbonX’, it is a headquarters for a genomics institute. It is a fun subject to study, we really went at it. We interviewed specialists and scientists during this research period.

例如,当时Siddhartha Mukherjee(基因组学领域的一位著名作家)来到我们的办公室进行了一场小讲座,让我们了解这个科目的一些背景和研究现状,以及我们如何将科学概念应用到建筑形式和概念中,因为形式和功能必须表现出客户的远景及身份。所以我们按照这个方式研究每一个项目,这个过程中自然而然地客户都会向你传达一些知识。我们正在做的项目我不能告诉你太多,我花了很多时间去和利益相关方沟通,尝试通过对话了解他们对这个项目的意图是什么,以及他们如何看待这个项目的建成和使用,这点很重要。

For instance, we had Siddhartha Mukherjee (a renowned writer in subjects as genomics) in our office, engaging in a dialogue to understand what is the context and research status on the subject, and how we were to apply scientific concepts into the architectural form and concept, because the form and function have to represent the client’s aspirations and identity. We research every project in that regard, and of course it has happened (and you want this to happen) that the client educates us in the process. We're doing a project that I cannot tell you much about, in which I'm spending a lot of time talking to the stakeholders, trying to understand what is their intention for our project. How do they see the project being done and used? Yes, that’s also very important.

Relationship between all related disciplines 


We see our practice the way a general practitioner or a general doctor sees the human body. Everything is complementary. The concepts of architecture and urbanism can be expanded, and integrated into landscape design, interior design, lighting design, all of these are part of the same design effort. We practice landscape and architecture as if they were indivisible elements in a work of architecture. I mentioned just now the project we're doing in Nanqiao in Shanghai (‘Shanghai Cofco Cultura l& Health Centre’), the public realm and the landscape of it is integral to the language of the facade, which is integral to the language of interior spaces. It is indivisible, you just cannot break them into separate entities.

▲ 上海中粮南桥半岛文体中心与医疗服务站景观展示 @SHA
 ▲ 上海中粮南桥半岛文体中心与医疗服务站水景 @SHA

In Chengdu (‘Slice Porosity Block’), the large plaza we generated, with gingko and osmanthus trees, the use of water as white noise to create a sense of microclimate or an oasis, all that is indivisible from the towers. In our ‘ICarbonX’ project, the two towers (one a hundred and fifty meters tall, and one two hundred meters tall) are integral with the landscape master plan on the ground floor and at a podium level, which branches out into the other neighbors around it. So we see this effort of landscape and architecture as an indivisible one. 

▲ 成都来福士-切开的通透体块城市广场中心水景 @Iwan BaanSHA

▲ iCarbon X碳云总部大厦蔓延景观 @SHA
(collaboration with specialized team) All that is very important, and we work with collaborators. We bring them in and are part of our team as our landscapes specialists, of course we do. We respect that profession very much, and we bring them in. Our work of architecture and landscape is similar in the fact that we are interested in creating human experiences that are pleasant for the users. When it comes to landscape, I think what we look for is the use of water, water reflection for the creation of microclimates, for white noise that is very soothing in creating an experience of phenomenological characteristics. Also planting, our work of architecture deals with planting in a way that does not only considers them as functional elements, but also for part of the color palette of the building.
Most of our buildings, like ‘Linked Hybrid’ for instance, tend to be monochrome, which means it doesn't have color. The accent of color you see is in the windows and in the landscape, a use of color that complements the building and the other way around. And we do detailing, our detailing of landscape is very important. That’s why you cannot separate it from the detailing that we are doing for the building.
▲ 当代MOMA-连接复合体单色立面与彩色窗户 ©Shu He